Last updated on November 3, 2025
You are a product of your environment, both online and offline. Having a civil discourse with people is crucial to growth and learning, but in the world we live in, people are too easily triggered. You get canceled by them and by the very platforms that are supposed to be pro-free speech.
This classic podcast episode is my deep dive into these complex issues. I sat down with my good friends, EU Digital Ambassador Nicolas Babin and business leader Steven J. Manning, to discuss how digital platforms have created an environment that often suppresses meaningful dialogue…
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Key Insights from This Episode
This conversation is a deep dive into the erosion of “civil discourse” in the digital age. Steven J. Manning argues that we’ve moved away from logic-based arguments and into “mortal combat,” where we now “confuse reason with volume.”
We agree that the anonymity of social media is a root cause. As Nicolas Babin points out, before the internet, you wouldn’t insult someone to their face for fear of a physical repercussion. Today, there are no consequences for being abusive from behind a keyboard.
I shared a real-world example of how LinkedIn automatically suppressed one of my posts for using a controversial hashtag, effectively “canceling” an important conversation before it could even start. This raises the critical question: who gets to be the arbiter of what speech is acceptable?
We explore the limits of free speech. Steven J. Manning notes the classic exception: you cannot yell “fire in a crowded theater.” But Nicolas Babin offers a different solution: the EU’s Digital Services Act (DSA). He explains that the DSA is not about policing content, but about giving users a formal, transparent appeals process—a “voice”—when a platform “jails” or “shadow-bans” them.
Discussion Timestamps
- (01:16) – Introduction: The Meaty Topic of Cancel Culture
- (02:30) – Nicolas Babin: The Importance of Culture and Respect
- (03:45) – Nat’s Example: The Tommy Robinson Post and LinkedIn’s Suppression
- (05:06) – Nicolas: It’s Getting Worse Because It’s Easy to be Anonymous
- (05:48) – Steven Manning: “On the internet, nobody knows you’re a dog”
- (07:23) – Steven: We’ve Lost Civil Discourse and Confuse “Reason with Volume”
- (09:38) – Steven: Facebook Blocked Me for Writing “Social Media is a Cancer of the Intellect”
- (10:57) – The Alarming Statistic: 35% of Gen Z and the Holocaust
- (12:56) – Nicolas: I Always Recruit People Different From Me to Challenge My Thinking
- (14:46) – Steven: We No Longer Have Discourse; We Have “Mortal Combat”
- (18:00) – Nat: How Do You Decide What Content to Censor?
- (18:22) – Nicolas: The EU’s Digital Services Act (DSA) Explained
- (20:10) – Steven: My Experience with Free Speech (Growing Up in a Communist Country)
- (21:38) – Steven: The Limit of Free Speech (“Fire in a Crowded Theater”)
- (23:45) – The Big Question: Who Gets to Be the Arbiter of Speech?
- (26:28) – Nicolas: The DSA is Not About Policing, But Giving a Voice to the Voiceless
- (27:46) – Steven: The “Russian Model” vs. the “Western Model” of Protection
- (30:20) – Final Call to Action for MONDAY INFLUENCER
Full Episode Transcript
(Transcript)
The bias of the news. And, and in fact, uh, certainly within the UK. I was talking to someone the other day on my Facebook, uh, ’cause I posted the same thing on Facebook as I posted on LinkedIn about Tommy Robinson, similar, similar post. And I got, I actually got some very negative reactions, because a lot of people don’t like the guy. They think he’s a racist this and that and the other. But he’s actually doing a very important job, and he is, he is bringing to the surface the fact that, uh, we are canceled.
I feel- if you feel that way, I will kill you. I will destroy you because I don’t like the fact that you drive a Tesla. But, but, but- Therefore, you are, you are, you’re the devil. You know, because up until now, those big platforms have had all the power in the world to just say, as you mentioned it at the beginning, “Your post was not liked. You got kicked out.”
Welcome to Influential Visions. Here we interview futuristic leaders who share their deep industry knowledge and business experience with you, ensuring you have your finger on the pulse and your eyes wide open. Here is your host, Nathaniel Schooler.
Nat Schooler: Well, I am very privileged today. I am joined by both, uh, Nicolas Babin and Stephen J. Manning. And we are talking about this meaty topic of cancel culture, and actually how, you know, if I don’t like your opinion, I don’t wanna, I don’t wanna talk to you about your opinion. But, but in fact, you’re so… Uh, I’m so triggered that I’m gonna actually block you and I’m never gonna speak to you again, because I don’t agree with what you have to say. And, and this is a really big problem that we have. I must admit, I did block someone the other day, but that was because he actually had a go at me personally, and he was very rude to me. And I think that’s a big, that’s a big, that’s a big no-no, right? But at the end of the day, why can’t we just have a sensible conversation with people, and actually talk to them about things that might be really, really important, and listen to their viewpoints without going crazy and becoming completely triggered? And this is, and this is the biggest, the biggest problem that I see right now on the internet, is, is this, if I’m, if I’m, if I’m brutally honest. Uh, so what, what, what do you think about that, uh, Nicolas, first of all?
Nicolas Babin: Well, I, I couldn’t agree, couldn’t agree more. Um, I actually recorded a LinkedIn learning video just about that, and the fact that culture is, is so important. And it’s, it’s still alive. You can, you can have a… I, I actually just posted about it, like, uh, two hours, two and a half hours ago. Um, because I was explaining basically how, well, culturally, we’re all different. It’s not a question about language. It’s a question about, you know, our environment and everything. And I am from a, uh, American-French family, obviously. French on my side, American on my wife’s side. We’ve been married 35 years, so I’ve had to, um, you know, going back and forth from California and, Northern California and, and the San Francisco bay area. And I’ve learned how to respect, basically, each, everybody’s opinion. And that’s the basis of everything. The reason you said you ghosted someone or you, you, you basically, uh, uh, um, erased or whatever, deleted the, the person’s comments on, on your… It, it’s, it’s because it wasn’t, it was not based on respect. The guy was just imposing his views. Whereas everybody’s right. Who am I to say that-
Nat Schooler: No, it was a direct, it was a direct insult, Nicolas. It was a direct insult.
Nicolas Babin: Even worse.
Nat Schooler: And, and it was, it was via a direct message, because actually, I posted something, uh, which, uh, I know, uh, hopefully both of you understand a bit about what’s going on in the UK right now. And there was this, there was this chap called Tommy Robinson, who calls himself a journalist, uh, but actually people think he’s a racist and this and that. But actually, he’s doing a very important job. And I posted something on LinkedIn, which, uh, uh, unfortunately, LinkedIn decided to stop public comments on that post automatically. So because it was, uh, uh, because it was actually a very controversial hashtag that I had used, I believe that LinkedIn actually blocked the reach of that post in order to suppress a conversation around one of the most important topics that is, that is out there, really, right now. And I was so angry about it. Uh, so, uh, uh, and then this guy actually sent me a message, direct message to me, uh, insulting me. I actually took some screenshots. I’m not gonna read out what he said. But, but, but this is so relevant, because people cannot control themselves. And, and as AI gets, gets more and more, uh, improvements, as it gets more, better at creating video, better at creating text, better at triggering people’s emotions, this behavior will get worse and worse. And, and, and, and it is, it is really, really bad.
Nicolas Babin: Yeah, but it’s getting worse because it’s easy. You know, in the past, before social media, you would go in front of someone. You would say, “I don’t agree with you.” You were probably not insulting them be- because you would be scared of insulting that person ’cause you could end up in a fight. Whereas today, you can be behind your computer using, uh, not, not your name, using somebody else’s or, or a makeup name, and, and do whatever you want, knowing that there will be no repercussion. So this is, this is why it’s, it’s, it’s, it will… Uh, you’re absolutely right. It will continue and it will get worse.
Nat Schooler: Right, right. So, so, so what do you think, Steve, about this, about this topic?
Steven J. Manning: Well, going a little backwards, uh, what you just said, Nicolas, is, uh, there’s a famous, uh, Steiner cartoon, was made famous by The Atlantic some years ago, and the caption is, “On the internet, nobody knows you’re a dog.” Uh… you know, and, and, and pic- picture a desk with a, with a, with a computer on top of the desk, a, a, a, a CRT, and there is a large dog sitting in front of the keyboard, eh, typing. And right behind him is another dog with his paws on his shoulder, and the caption says, “On the internet, nobody knows you’re a dog.” Now, we’ve had the opportunity in the agency world to demonstrate that to really big companies, who thought that they’ll do business with that company, not my company. Look at the website. So in four hours, we hijacked the website of the biggest distributor of musical content in the world, entirely. And that’s at 4:00 in the afternoon. And by 7:00 in the morning, we had 100% fully functioning e-commerce site for the biggest distributor of music in the world. Yeah. And they said, “How’d you do this?” I said, “Well, uh, my guys in Mon- Montreal were drunk, so they took the day off.” “But my controller is really slick, and my nephew, who at 16 was the best hacker in the country, well, he just stole your content and built around it.” But, uh, uh, you know, uh, we have lost the whole notion of, of civil discourse- uh, and argument, if you will. I love the word argument because discord is a wonderful thing to have an, an argument that’s based on logic, et cetera. Yeah. And, uh, uh, we here in America absolutely confuse reason with volume. The louder I yell, the better my position. That would be the way the extremes work. Unfortunately, uh, speaking of cancellation because of your views, and I do have, uh, something to share with you, Nathaniel, in te- as it relates to canceling people. We… I feel this, you feel that, and we feel strongly. Mm-hmm. Now, wouldn’t it be cool to have that discussion? Yeah. Now, I’m big on times, dates, places, and facts. I want to know what you think. I don’t care what you feel. You could feel that way because your wife is upset with you, or you really hate the weather. You could feel… I don’t care how you feel. Now, in terms of cancellation and so on, uh, I have… I am… I, I’m really focused on having relationship with people who are intellectually honest. And they may have some wherewithal, they may be lacking, but they have some intellectual honesty. I’m really focused on people who have some moral clarity, and I have no tolerance for people who are morally ambiguous or morally, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, people who bend with th- however the wind blows. Now, those are great conversations to have. I have said to a man I’ve known, who is a world-class academic, who, for reasons unclear to me, one day es- espoused that position. And I said, “You’ve written 12 books, and they’re all opposite.” “Well, enlightenment.” I said, “No, do you happen to recall the moment in time when you sustained irrevocable, irrevocable brain damage?” Now, if you say that to me, I may come up and beat you. Him, he wrote me 28 pages on why I was wrong. But I think that the, the, the, the d- the genesis of all this is, in fact, social media. And I discovered a couple years ago that, uh, Facebook blocked me. Now, I didn’t know I had that Facebook account. One of my people set it up. And I said, “I should look.” I was blocked because I wrote something called, uh, Social Media is a Cancer of the Intellect, and Facebook doesn’t have a sense of humor. So based on that, I have a badge of honor. But… and I’ll, I’ll stop with this. Uh, uh, I just wrote something, uh, having to do with Rene Descartes, you know, uh, famous Rene Descartes, uh, I think, therefore I exist. Social media killed that. Yep. Because if I can post on Facebook, I exist. I’m relevant. To whom? You? The person who posted that? Okay. And then you, you take that further. Uh, X. Uh, really? Okay. And then the ultimate is TikTok. I can’t spell. TikTok, therefore I am creative.
Nat Schooler: Well, you did raise a good- I’m gonna interject there because you did raise a very interesting point this week about, uh- when, when, when we were, uh, writing Monday Influencer this week. The, the number of, I think it was Generation… Was it Generation X or Generation Z?
Steven J. Manning: Z. Z.
Nat Schooler: Generation Z. And it was something ridiculous, like 35% of Generation Z in America, um, uh, do not believe that the Holocaust happened. And, and, and, and I actually read that, and I was like, “Well, I can believe it,” because people are, are, are just, I’m sorry, dumb, right? And-
Nicolas Babin: Not educated. Yeah. It’s not dumb. It’s, it’s education’s the issue.
Nat Schooler: But, but okay. Well, okay, not, not educated, but, but they’re not, but they’re not encouraged to be educated, and they are-
Steven J. Manning: What Nicholas just put his finger on a very critical part of that, which is s-… Now, I will qualify. 70% of late generation, and, and then Gen Z, don’t relate to the Holocaust 80 years later. 36% believe it was a myth. The qualification is, the survey related to educated Gen Z. College-educated San Jose.
Nat Schooler: That would be what Nicolas just said.
Steven J. Manning: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, uh, uh, okay. Well, you know what? Uh, if you ever feel like it, I also wrote a long piece about Holocaust. I write a fair bit about the Holocaust and the genesis and all of that. But then I wrote another piece about the Holocaust that had been perpetrated since 1945, including today. You know? And people look at me and say, “What do you mean? You mean the Holocaust where? In China?” Well, like, everywhere.
Nat Schooler: I, I wanna- say two, um, sorry. Nicolas has got something to say that he’s, he’s-
Nicolas Babin: I wanna say two things. Two things. Really pleased that you mentioned I Think Therefore I Exist because it comes from a French guy called Michel Montaigne back in 1600. So that’s part of my… uh, environment. So that, that’s really good. But the second, second thing that y- you pointed, Steven, is really important, is for me, throughout my whole career, I always recruited people who are actually different than me. Because I thought, especially, uh, as you know, I worked, uh, for many, many years for Sony. And so, the Japanese were very different in terms of culture. But I, I’m, you know, because I’d been around for over 15 years, I thought I was becoming a root. And so I was becoming, like, uh, th- my environment, I, I was not brainwashed wh- wh- but I was, you know, becoming more and more like the Japanese. And so I always wanted people to challenge me and be different than me, based on respect. And I mentioned that at the beginning, and that’s, that’s really a key point here, is as long as you respect the other person and you’re not there to kill him, you’re not there to make him look, uh, stupid, um, and, and every time you mention something, it’s, it’s, it’s mainly to augment the other person. Um, because if you have a- if you open your chakras, you know, then, then you’ll be able to listen to what the other person has to say and understand why, where it’s com- where he or she is, obviously, is coming from.
Steven J. Manning: Well, unfortunately, un- unfortunately, Nicolas, that would be cornerstone of education, of growth, of, of, you know- Uh, I, I say this. I c- I can learn from everyone I speak to, including the clinically insane. What can you learn from the 20-year-old kid who just parked your car in this office building? Well, asking of questions, and I know more about social trends in Guatemala than I ever did. Is that important? Not to most people. It’s important because it does add something to my cognitive functions. But what we’ve arrived to is, we no longer have this discourse. What we have is mortal combat. Uh, I will- If you’ll, if you’re that way, I will kill you. I will destroy you because I don’t like the fact that you drive a Tesla. But, but, but- Therefore, you are, you are, you’re the devil.
Nat Schooler: Yeah, exactly. Right, right. Yeah. But it, but it, but it goes, it goes deeper than that. It goes to, uh, to this. This is the fundamental problem, is the bias of the news. And, and in fact, uh, certainly within the UK. I was talking to someone the other day on my Facebook, uh, ’cause I posted the same thing on Facebook as I posted on LinkedIn about Tommy Robinson. Similar, similar post. And I got, I actually got some very negative reactions, because a lot of people don’t like the guy. They think he’s a racist this and that and the other. But he’s actually doing a very important job, and he is, he is bringing to the surface the fact that, uh, we are canceled. We, he was literally deplatformed. Like a lot of these people that are supposed to be right wing, he was deplatformed, uh, and actually jailed. Um, I, I, I, I don’t know too much about a lot of what he’s done. Uh, but he was the only person really that stood up and talked about these, these, these, um, fundamentalists who were, um, raping girls in, in England. There are lots and lots of rape gangs that were there. And actually, I find the whole thing just abhorrent for, uh, uh, uh, you know, it’s just awful, right? But the, but the, but the, the point is, is that on Facebook, I had a lot of people that were actually engaging in a conversation. One of them told me that I’m better than that, which I thought was a bit odd, because it’s like, hold on a minute. You don’t even know what my real opinion is, because I just put this out there as a bit of a conversation starter, and it just stated the fact that Tommy Robinson, uh, is doing a good thing, because he’s actually bringing this to light. If you can’t stand outside an abortion clinic and pray silently in your head without becoming a- getting arrested by the police, right, but you can go out and you can stand in the street with a, with a prayer mat and you can pray, right, uh, if, if you’re from a different faith, I find that extremely odd. I’m, I’m extremely angry about it. I think that we, we really need to open our eyes, you know, uh, and a lot of people watch GB News now, which is a very far right sort of extremist channel in the UK, uh, according to a lot of people. But actually, they, they’re the ones that report on 1,200 migrants came across on boats from France, right, um, the other day, li- two or three days ago. 1,200 people are going to the UK to seek a better life. It’s like, hm, I find it a bit odd that, that they’ve, they’ve been brainwashed.
Nicolas Babin: What is that?
Nat Schooler: They’ve been brainwashed that they’re gonna have a better life in the UK first and foremost. In the UK. Yeah, absolutely. Right? Because they’re not. They’re not gonna have a better life. And this is, and this is what I find really odd.
Nicolas Babin: Well, better lives compared to where, where they come from, yes.
Nat Schooler: Well, well, they think, they think so. But the whole, the whole thing is, the whole thing is inf- is disinformation. And it’s like… How do you, how do you- if you’re running a platform, you’re running a social platform, how do you decide what content is censored, what content is not censored? Who can say what?
Nicolas Babin: So I’m just gonna put my, uh, digital EU ambassador hat on this one, because the European Commission is, has been working on it. And but this is what we call the Digital Services Act, where of course, and I know, you know, a lot of people are going to say it’s Europe is, it has to invent a law in order to, uh, to operate. But here, basically what we’ve, what we’ve done is, or what the European Commission has done, is that, um, you cannot be jailed on Facebook or kicked out on any social media today in Europe without having, number one, the, the right to know about it beforehand, number two, to appeal, and number three, if your appeal hasn’t been accepted, then you can go to the European Commission and they will help you fight the appeal. Because up until now, those big platforms have had all the power in the world to just say, as you mentioned it at the beginning, your post was not liked, you got kicked out, or at least no reach and no comments on it, right? So it, with the European Commission, obviously, you know, you are in the UK, Steve in the, is in the US so you don’t have that, that experience, but I do and-
Nat Schooler: Well, I’m in Croatia. I’m in Croatia now.
Nicolas Babin: Oh, it’s true. Sorry. So you, you’re protected actually, uh, and, and you, well, you were not kicked out. It was just your post that was basically at a lesser reach than you had hoped. But at least, you know, we’re trying to have a more transparent and fair view of everything. And I know not everybody’s gonna agree with this strategy, but at least, you know, this is where we come from. We’re the old continent. Um, this is something that makes us feel a little bit more comfortable, and this is why European Commission is really protecting its businesses and its citizens around it.
Steven J. Manning: Mm-hmm. Well, we are nowhere, nowhere in that world here, uh, Klaus- as you know. Uh, first of all, uh, uh, I grew up in a communist country, and the whole notion of free speech was astounding to us- when we discovered it. And we were actually fearful of it to begin with, is I’ll never forget, uh, I was a, a, a late teenager driving with my father. My father was a world-class scientist back in the old country. Uh, he was a, he was a, my father was what I characterize as uber brain. Uh, and I was driving, it was 6:00 in the morning, we were going somewhere, I wasn’t sure how to get there, and I pulled alongside a police ca- police car in Los Angeles. I rolled the windows down, I went like this, down comes the window. I said, “Hey, officer, how do I get to Moorpark?” And the guy said this or that. And my dad said, “Wow. You had the balls to do that.” Because it’s so antithetical to how we were raised. Mm-hmm. Now, to say that I appreciated free speech is a massive understatement, particularly for a guy that certainly in my later years, uh, turned out to be, uh, a truly equal opportunity cynic. And I don’t have a problem with writing a national note to Donald Trump, which he told me that he wasn’t interested, which is kind of f- kind of fun. But, uh, I do see, uh, you know, uh, uh, the, the ultimate definition of free speech, uh, in the United States, I forget which, uh, justice said this, but free speech is protected, it’s theoretically limitless, but for you cannot scream fire in a crowded theater where there’s no fire. That’s not protected. So the question then is, should there be other protections for all of us thinking people, not the fringe left fascists, the fringe right fascists. Is there something that says that level of hate speech… Okay, I don’t like Jews and I don’t like Croatians. They’re bad people. Okay. There’s a point at which that escalates as it is now in the United States of America, and it’s remarkably metastasized in the population, starting with universities, at our top universities. Yeah. Hey, Harvard, I want my money back. Uh, just a, a new mantra I have. I want my money back. Uh, uh, it metastasized to where it becomes, uh, uh, inciteful of violence, as we’re experiencing in the United States today. Hey, MIT, I want my money back. Uh, but just in case they’re listening. Uh, so the question is, are there limits to free speech? Uh, they should be. When you incite murder and riot and genocide-
Nat Schooler: Agreed. Agreed.
Steven J. Manning: …there should be a limit. But, but here’s my question asking you smart people. You guys are very smart. You have reach. You think as ambassador, uh, uh, at the Euro Commission, former head of Sony for years and years, how are you gonna be the arbiter of that speech? Who decides that speech went from a 7.2 to an 8.0, which is now inciting violence, rather than some jackass with a keyboard? See, God gave us keyboards and a, and, and an internet connect, which I wish we did not have. And now we can all say these things. And any, on the internet anybody uh, uh, any, nobody knows you’re a dog. So the guy screaming and gets a following… could be some guy living in the garage above his mother’s kitchen in his underwear, screaming, and he found those words that trigger. And by the way, you and I spent time talking about triggers. Why are triggers triggers, and how do you deal with a trigger? Why are people triggered by this? Well, if you, look, the h- you know the 140 characters?
Nat Schooler: Yeah.
Steven J. Manning: I had something to do with the 140 characters. I created a social platform called Clean Thoughts on a Dirty Wall. And it was highly intellectual, and I wanted your comments limited to 140 characters. If you can’t give me a real cogent, focused strong point in 140 characters, I’m not interested. That was the basis of it. So a question that I ask of you, Nicolas, is freedom of speech could be sacrosanct, but it does have to have that limit. Like we started out, you can’t scream fire in a crowded theater ’cause people are gonna kill themselves when there’s no fire. You can’t do that.
Nicolas Babin: Absolutely.
Steven J. Manning: So where is it where the MIT class valedictorian three days ago, MIT. There are no dumb people at MIT. She decided to submit her speech, they approved it, and she gave another speech. Death to Israel, death to America, Gaza, uh, Palestinians and so on. That’s what she delivered. Now, I am all for people achieving. I’m all about achievement. I, I know what it’s like to work 100 hours a week for 25 straight years. I am of the opinion that anybody hires that woman is an idiot. By the way, if you happen to be Bechtel or any of the big engineering companies and you hire her, and she works on a bridge or a tunnel project, let me know where it is. Because as a Jew, I don’t want to travel down that tunnel.
Nat Schooler: No, fair enough. Fair enough.
Steven J. Manning: ‘Cause that woman wants me to die.
Nat Schooler: Fair enough. So-
Steven J. Manning: So where’s the limit? How do you police it? And, you know, legis- legislating it is silly. What are you going to prosecute the one million people that post bad stuff today on X? How are you gonna do that?
Nat Schooler: How do you, how do you do it?
Nicolas Babin: Well, it’s not, it’s not the purpose. And this is where, you know, different cultures, we can, we can even all together, the three of us grow, uh, with this conversation. But it’s not the purpose of, of policing it basically and saying, “This is bad,” or, “This is wrong.” This is just the purpose of saying, “Well, we’re going to listen to everyone.” When you go to court, you have a lawyer that’s defending you that’s basically bringing your point across, and then acro- uh, in front of you, you have somebody else who’s going to say the opposite pre- pretty much. This is exactly the same story with the Digital Services Act. We basically want to give a voice to people who didn’t have a voice previously. So, like, again, on Facebook, I’ve been in Facebook jail for a week. Uh, I never understood why, because one person didn’t like what I post, and, what I posted, sorry, and then, you know, um, reported me back to, to Facebook, and so Facebook decided to, to, to ghost me and to put me in jail. This is why we want to try to protect, you know, your voice. And this is what I’m saying is I think the only way we do it in Europe is by legislation. And I, I will definitely agree to, to disagree on, on, on this point. But at least we, we try to find a way to, to promote and protect everybody’s voice. And this is what I think is very important.
Steven J. Manning: You, you see, my friend, well, there’s a dichotomy here that has existed, you know, I call it the Russian model and the Western model. You know, we are going to protect 100 people for fear that we fail one. As opposed to we’re going to prosecute 100 people knowing one of them is bad. That’s the Russian model. That’s why nobody hijacks Russian airplanes. You know? Because- okay, there’s, you shoot it down, kill 200 Russian citizens, nobody’s going to hijack airplanes anymore. So I, I think that- somebody didn’t like something you wrote. See, I, I, I have a real fundamental problem with how shallow those analytics have become that got you banned. Uh, there’s a delicatessen here in Santa Monica, California. 100% of us know it. It’s been there since 1925. We all go there. Bay Cities, we all go there. The health department shut down Bay Cities for the last 10 days. Shut it down. I- there’s a line of an hour every single day to get a sandwich there. All of us do this. Friends of mine are owners, you know? Somebody bought a sandwich, their famous signature sandwich, and got food poisoning. Complained to the health department. They shut down a business that’s been thriving since 1925. And when I said to the manager, “What the…” He said, “Well, we’re working it out.” And they now assert… Look, they are sa- they are Satan incarnate in a delicatessen. You mean the guys who make the sandwiches are not wearing the gloves all the time? Oh, hell, I’ve been eating there for 40 years. I haven’t died yet, you know? But one complaint got that iconic business shut down, period. Because the people at the health department-
Nat Schooler: Well, that’s, that’s, that’s not acceptable.
Steven J. Manning: It is. It is. But the good folks at the health department are, are headhunters. They’re trophy hunters too. Anyway.
Nat Schooler: But look, Nicolas has to, Nicolas has to go. Uh, Nicolas, I want to thank you very much for, uh, for chatting with us, uh, as usual, and being a part of Monday Influencer. I’m actually looking forward to the next one.
Nicolas Babin: And next one, I’ll make sure that I don’t have to go, so at least we can spend two hours talking.
Nat Schooler: Yeah, yeah. We’re gonna have a really good con- We’ll, we’ll talk for a long, long time next time.
Steven J. Manning: We’ll do it whenever it, whenever it works for you on a 24-hour basis.
Nat Schooler: Yeah, there’s, there’s so much to talk about. And, and if you’re listening to this and you haven’t subscribed to mondayinfluencer.com, you need to do that. So just go there and do the $1 free trial, uh, $1 month, one trial. Uh, you, you’ll love it, and, uh, we really appreciate you tuning in. And thank you, Nicolas.
Thanks very much for listening to Influential Visions. Please make sure you share this episode with your friends and business connections. And don’t forget to drop us a review wherever you listen. Thanks.
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